| commentid | objectid | typeid | userid | subject | comment | timestamp | parentid |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 10394 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Some additional info | I said it was not Open Source (ans Open Source (OSI) == Free Software) but that its code was perfectly Open Source (or Free Software if you prefer). I think it's correct and it can't be more precise. | 2003-04-16 10:34:32 | 10375 |
| 10395 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Some additional info | <i>Can you point me exactly to the part of Planeshift that requires you to pay anything or prevents you to use its code? You can freely download the game, play it, and also use its source code to start creating your own game. This sounds like a free game to me. </i><br><br> You can not always create your own game, based on PlaneShift, and redistribute it. It's not possible to modify art work (data) and redistribute the modified game. That's why it's not Free Software (or Open Source defined by OSI if you prefer). The engine is Free, though, and art work is free-as-in-beer.<br><br> <i>If you want to create an original game, you just have to turn on your imagination and/or the creativity of people working with you, and create contents for your own original game.</i><br><br> That's why it's non free : there are unacceptable restrictions on derived works (unacceptable to be considered as free software of course, you license your work how you want).<br><br> <i>This in the case you really want to crete an original game and not just a cheap rip-off of Planeshift for some reason.</i><br><br> Obviously, you don't want to provide free software, because free software has to provide the ability to do what you call "cheap rip-off". This is not a problem, just don't claim it's free software. Only the code can be considered as a free software library.<br><br> <i>Since the game wants to be original and fun, its contents (artwork, history, quests, etc...) are not feely available: if everybody could take and use them, we'd only assist to the birth of dozens of lower-value clone projects.</i><br><br> No. You don't know anything about such clones.<br><br> <i>Why lower-value? Because if those projects had the potential to create better quality contents, they would have created them, instead of ripping Planeshift's original contents.</i><br><br> No. If your art work is good, some could be reused in a project mixing new and PlaneShift-derived art work. You have no argument. Luckily, Free Software is not about judging the quality of potential derived work. Free Software requires both lower quality and higher quality derived works to be possible. That's just outside of the scope of what the original author of a Free Software can request. What you ask makes the product (not the engine) non-free.<br><br> <i>I assume they'd just take the engine we provide and use it with their higher-quality contents, instead of whining around some forums because they can't copy what someone else did.</i><br><br> People who do free software don't assume this. People don't whine about the license, we're pointing that it's non free, since many games <i>are</i> free and since there's a lot of free software in the linux community. It appears <i>you</i> don't want people to be aware of the nonfreeness of PlaneShift. (Note that nobody said the code was non-free). | 2003-04-16 11:02:18 | 10376 |
| 10396 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Planeshift License | Did you check the docs directory on cvs? It contains instructions. It may not be 100% accurate and complete but how many Open Source projects have good documentation? Programmers generally don't document well but saying that means the project isn't free or Open Source is rather strange. <p> What do you mean by 'up2date' package? That's also something I haven't seen in many Open Source projects. To keep the source up-to-date you just do 'cvs update'. <p> I agree the team is closed but that only says something about the team and the PlaneShift project as a whole. Not the source. The source is GPL and that's all what counts. You can use that source for your own projects provided you comply to the GPL too. <p> Greetings, | 2003-04-16 11:07:50 | 10392 |
| 10397 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Planeshift License | <i>The guy is spending years of his life making this. He's entitled to license his art however he pleases.</i><br><br> Of course. Nobody said the contrary.<br><br> <i>This is a pure troll by a GPL obsessive. Not everything in life can be given away.</i><br><br> No. Some people do, and it's called Free Software. So that's worth mentioning what the actual license is. There is a free software license for the code, but the whole game is non-free (it's just free as in free beer).<br><br> That's all, and it's not a problem. That's just an information, I wonder why people behave aggressively when it's mentioned. | 2003-04-16 11:09:51 | 10347 |
| 10398 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Planeshift License | <i>Maybe you should start demanding that John Carmack release the artwork and levels for Quake 3.. </i><br><br> Why ? Carmack GPL'd the code of many games. He didn't claim they were/would be free software, he said code would be GPL'd and that's what he did.<br><br> <i>If they create a good game that we can play under Linux, then this is a good thing, and the fact that the engine is open is a huge plus.. It's a plus, and doesn't mean that they are obligated to release their artwork or rules.</i><br><br> Of course. But don't you think it's worth mentioning what the license actually is ? Developers of free games could use some art work from other free games, if they lack artists. Here it's not possible since it's non-free. Free Software is about free reuse and redistribution, what you can really do with this game <i>is</i> something interesting.<br><br> I think it's worth mentioning, but understand that's not <i>against</i> the authors. Many many proprietary games are great, I understand people can not always afford making free software, of course. Maybe more precise categories in the "Distribution policy" of submitted games could help reduce such comments about licensing issues. But personally, I found the original comment particularly interesting.<br><br> | 2003-04-16 11:25:49 | 10378 |
| 10399 | PlaneShift | games | 7399 | Re: Planeshift License | <p>We know that someone will always try to spoil things. And someone will even succed. But since we are interested in the success of our project and not in the success of someone merely cloning what we did, we don't see what is so wrong when trying to protect our original contents. We are not more obscure than any other project developing a game which has the ambition of becoming a successful product. I don't see where the fun could be of playing a game where everything you could see and do was obvious from the beginning, leving you nothing to discover. <p>I am positive that you know many artists happy of seeing their work reused, and I put myself among these ones, if you can guarantee to me that my artwork will not be used in a context that is stupid or vulgar or generally out of the intended fruition context I had in mind when creating my artwork. Artwork is much more delicate than code when dealing with abuses of its redistribution: I wouldn't be very happy if I modeled let's say a character, made it freely available, and then discovered it inside a idiot porn mod of some game. Maybe with my name in the credits. No thanks. Do you think you have the ability to ensure that nobody on the internet will misuse our contents? I don't think so. And we can't either, but at least the license covering our artwork grants the fact that if misuse of our contents has been perpetrated, it is not our fault. <p>Yes, the engine is free while the game contents are covred by a proprietary license. And so? We are already contributing to this community by developing free software for our engine and by creating a possibly commercial quality game that everybody will be able to play spending ZERO money. Consider also we do this in our free time as a hobby while we could be easily doing other things. At this point, what do you want more? Should we fill your fridge with food and maybe also buy you a new car? <p>About the source code and its instructions: if you search with just a bit of attention, you will find a guide to compiling and having Planeshift up and running. You feel this is not enough? Feel free to add as many additional instructions as you see necessary: nobody will bash you for this, and probably everyone will be happier. <p>You don't seem very pleased with the requirements we set to join the project. Cool. So you think that accepting even the most incompetent person in the world will give more benefits to the development of Planeshift than selecting only the ones with the skills necessary to effectively push the progress? Even if we didn't state some written requirements to join our team, those requirements would still exist de facto, as experience over a large amount of applicants to our team has proven. Actually only the unprofessional or unprepared ones were the ones whining all the time and producing nothing. | 2003-04-16 11:29:34 | 10392 |
| 10400 | PlaneShift | games | -1 | Re: Planeshift License | <i>I agree the team is closed but that only says something about the team and the PlaneShift project as a whole. Not the source. The source is GPL and that's all what counts. </i><br><br> No, the product is Free Software/Open Source if it's licensed with a free license (see OSI or FSF web sites for lists of licenses). Here the art work is not under such a license, it's not GPL (or any other free software license). The engine is free software, the game is not. Restrictions on the (re)distribution is not compliant with the FSF (or OSI) definition of free software. | 2003-04-16 11:40:24 | 10396 |
| 10401 | PlaneShift | games | 7399 | Re: Some additional info | <p>Apparently my explaination was not clear enough. I can attribute this to the fact of not being a native english speaker, in this case you can call it my fault. <p>As I already wrote, the Planeshift engine, which means the source code is free. The Planeshift GAME contents are not free in the sense of freely redistributable and reusable. The Planeshift GAME is and will be free in monetary terms of use: zero money to play it: just download it and have fun. <p>"You can not always create your own game, based on PlaneShift, and redistribute it" The answer is YES and NO: YES, you can create your own game, using the Planeshift ENGINE and providing you own original contents. And NO, you can't create and redistribute a game that uses the Planeshift GAME CONTENTS. <p>The reason why the Planeshift GAME's contents are protected is that the scope of Planeshift GAME is to be fun and original whenever and wherever possible (other reasons are stated in another post I did here). Having our models and artwork present in many different projects clearly destroys the Planeshift originality -> we don't want this. We are already donating to the community a game engine and a game. Is this not enough for you? Well, then just structure your own project in such a way that you will be able to freely redistribute your artwork: in this way, all the ones thinking we're not doing enough already will have a place where to run and feel more moral than those tricky Planeshift guys ;-) | 2003-04-16 11:52:44 | 10395 |
| 10402 | PlaneShift | games | 506 | Doesn't run on Debian unstable | Tried to run it on Debian unstable, without much luck: <br> <pre>$ ./psclient ./psclient-bin: /lib/libpthread.so.0: version `GLIBC_2.3.2' not found (required by ./psclient-bin)</pre> Seems like psclient-bin is dynamically linked, while psclient is statically linked. <br> I am also wondering what all those .so's in the top-level directory should do, probally better to do them in a subdirectory or link them directly into the binary if possible, took some time to find the psclient binary. | 2003-04-16 12:14:24 | 0 |
| 10404 | PoopMUp | games | -1 | PoopMUp | I downloaded and compiled Poopmup, and it compiled just fine. However, when I try to run it, it just crashes with a seg fault. The exact error I get is: POOP_USE_JOYSTICK 0 Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed) Segmentation fault | 2003-04-16 13:11:51 | 0 |